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June 26, 2023
John Rizvi, Esq.

LIVE: Prototypes & Patents | Exclusive Inventor Advice from Experts | With Prototype House®

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00:02

So we have three years. What? Know? Bring all the cameras back? That's fine.

00:30

Okay, guys, welcome. We're here at the patent Professor headquarters and program today is patents and prototypes. And I'm here with Matthew bordie of prototype house, Nolan Matthew for years, and he has a good understanding of where prototypes fit in with Catholics. So today, we're kind of just going to talk generally, some questions that come up that I get all the time. And we have our Director of Client Relations here at he's monitoring the chat. So if you have comments or questions, just post them there. And you can always jump in and ask us this is kind of an informal opportunity for recording vendors, manufacturers, those that have questions about prototyping. Matthew here Quist, with lots of prototypes that he's brought in that he's worked on. And sometimes inventors have worries about where prototyping fits in, in the patenting sequence. So if you have those I can I can talk on that as well. So at the welcome, thank you for taking the time to come in today.

01:40

Yeah, well, thanks for having us. And I did bring a few examples. And so prototype paths were in Fort Lauderdale. We're really near the bet professors headquarters here in Coral Springs. And if you have a question online, I urge you to ask us, for guests to hear in person. Also, go ahead and raise your hand and feel free to ask us any questions. So it's more of an open dialogue. So, you know, I'll kick it off, John, and ask you, you know, when do you feel is the ideal time to, you know, think of a prototype when you first have an idea? You know,

02:16

okay, that's great, great question. And I want to start with why I think there's a myth out there, of running to the prototype first, and a lot of people might not know this, but at one time, in order to file for a patent, you actually submitted the physical prototype. And if you can imagine, like, you know, right now we're updating 11 million patents. And there's, you know, there's patents on, like humongous things like aircraft landing gear, and like, just imagine if that was still the requirement to have to actually prepare that prototype and then submit it. That requirements went away very early on. So today, there's no requirement to file a physical prototype for your application. So my advice, generally to inventors is to focus on protecting the idea first, before you start working on a prototype, because you never know, if you're reinventing the wheel, it might be something that's that's already out there. And I don't know if you've seen some of that. I'm sure you've had inventors come in with an idea. And you may have already know it

03:25

exists. Oh, yeah. There's actually one of the I'll tell you about, we have people come in all the time. We're in Florida. And everybody has loved ice. And they come in this app is million dollar idea. It's amazing. And it's basically a plastic cover for the edging of the lanai. So when landscapers come, they usually tend to cut the lanai. But it's patented. And there's a lot of people that come up with this. So I think that's brings up a really good point. So when clients come to us, you know, and they're not that far along, I think it's really important for you guys to contact John, at the patent professor, do a thorough patent search, and then filed for that provisional patent. So you get some initial protection. And then you can start working with the product development firm, like prototype house, where we'll start going through some iterations of prototypes. And then your product may change during the prototyping process, where then you can give those updates to John and he can update the patent application before it turns into a utility patent.

04:35

That's what I mean, the and I can understand the why someone would want to try the prototypes first because I had this goes back. Like early on in my career, I had a client with just this amazing, beautiful stainless steel blade for a lawn mower. And it was even feel bad calling it a prototype is like a finished product. And what it would do, we would have like a horizontal blades and a bunch of vertical blades on each, you can think of a fan, each fan blade having a bunch of vertical blades. So when the grass is cut horizontally, it's also cut vertically and just comes out, like completely missed. And, and we did a patent search. And it is, like just devastating to find almost like a knockoff with something is if, you know, as if someone had read his mind, and it was his exact idea. And this prototype cost about $8,000. So I think you know, one of the nice things I like about the way magic works prototype house is the initially, you don't, you may not always jump in to a full functional working model prototype. At that cost. There's there's ways to do things with and you can talk about that, like injection molding, or

05:54

Yeah, injection molding comes a little further down when you're ready. But for example, you know, initially we'll start off with some ideation and concept thing. Sometimes clients are not ready to file a patent right away on their idea, because they're not sure exactly how to make it work. So if you're not sure how to make it work, and you're not sure on the materials, you're not sure on the like the final, you know what, how you're going to make something work, we can help you Ida, do a little bit of research on what mechanisms could make it work. And then we can give you even simple sketches, and a good illustration of how it will work. And then you can go with John prepared to explain, hey, this is how we think a product is gonna work. This is what the idea is, is what's different. Can we do a patent search on that. And then it's a minimal investment for us to do the initial ideation and research. And then if, you know, John's team comes back and says, Hey, unfortunately, we found you know, a few devices that are exactly the same, maybe you can change it or, you know, think of something better than you didn't spend a ton of money and you feel better moving forward. But I think every entrepreneur should, you know, think of that when they're about to embark on this journey. Because it's expensive. And you have to, you know, be prepared to further those notes. You know, and I think some clients don't want to, they believe in their idea so much that they don't want to do that. And they'll be devastated later. Right. So that's one way to, you know, make sure that you don't have the devastation, like the lawnmower blade, right? Because I can't imagine how you had to like console them leaving the office?

07:39

You know, and the question like, What, oh, my God, why did you because you want to know if it's a new idea. Before you work on creating a prototype, I said, Well, why did you create this prototype at this, this cost? And the answer like is something all inventors grapple with, because I wanted to make sure it worked, before I protected, I want to make sure I have something worth protecting. So there's different ways of making sure it works. One is of course, you create a full working model and it a huge cost. But the other is to get a provisional patent filed, which will protect the general concept and then go to a manual prototype manufacturer like like Matthew and they've done this for so long and so much experience they don't have to actually try everything to figure out if it works or not. So they can a lot of the developing can be done just mentally without putting even pen to paper and certainly before putting money into molds and and other other things for prototyping. So you can you can do that and with a provisional patent allows you to do is you have a full year to fine tune the idea and we've had ideas that have been patent pending and we've had clients go over the prototype house and and work with them and when it comes back at the end of the year there's there's some really new novel improvements that were not the original patent and that's okay because the original patent was a provisional so we can include that new stuff and then convert it so that I think that's kind of an iterative approach to working and if you know for those inventors that think that they're at some severe disadvantage because they have to improve the product. In you know in a bunch of series I mean look at like look at what Apple does. I mean like what Apple Dyson like all of them like I don't even know what iPhone or it like 1112 Whatever it is, in fact sometimes a launch a product and have to three weeks later, like a recall or an update or something because everything seems to be perfect on paper and you know on the drawing board and Want to explore to find that there's something missing. So that's why I'm a huge believer in the provisional patent. But you really don't actually have filed, it's, you don't, it's to your advantage to not rest on the concept of the idea the way it's filed, and work on trying to see if there's additional tweaks that you can make.

10:19

Yeah, absolutely. And it gives you peace of mind, because in the US is first a file. So you know, it's better to file sooner than later if you want to protect your idea. And then you don't have to worry about it, because you have that filing date, and you gives you that peace of mind. Otherwise, if you don't file, you're always wondering, you know, that someone just filed something similar. So we actually had a story where we had, I won't mention names or the product, but we had a entrepreneur we're working with on a concept, and he just wanted to move forward, going straight to production. And then they had somebody in the same industry, one city over, that filed a patent for that exact product. And he definitely came up with it first. But I think, you know, people talk, you never know who you're sharing your ideas with. And even if it's like a family member, you know, everybody talks. So and then, you know, someone might take your idea and twist it a little bit. And they think it became their idea. And that's just human nature a little bit. But I would recommend, you know, get your filing date, it gives you peace of mind. And then we can build upon that.

11:34

That brings up a great point the, in those you know, I'm I've been doing this a long time, like 25 plus years. And for most of my career, the US patent system was on a first to invent system, which means whoever can prove that they had the concept first, and worked diligently on the idea of filing, that's all that was required to get patent rights. And that's why a lot of the early advice is to have a laboratory notebook and document the date of your idea. If you buy if you do your own prototyping initial work, and you go to Home Depot and buy supplies, keep the receipts because that's proof that when you had your concept, all of that went out the window in 2013, because the US patent system switched from a first of five first to invent system, which in which you have to prove you invented first, to a system that first a file. That's what Matthew was talking about under first a file, you want to be extremely careful on who you discuss your idea with. It sounds terrible to say there could be a you know, a family member or a close friend. But being as an attorney, you end up seeing the worst cases and you'll you'll see ideas that have been taken by spouses, former spouses, kids, parents, friends, the key is to get it protected, as soon as possible, get that filing date. Because today, first of all, is all you have at one point. I mean, so today, even if you had a video recording of you creating the invention with documented evidence of having created it first, that's not going to help you in court if somebody else follows the application first.

13:16

So no more writing and sketching mailing a letter. Yeah, I still have clients today that say, Well, I mailed myself a letter. You can't do that anymore. But I used to be

13:27

proof. Yes, it's no smarter than it used to be. Because that would prove your date of what date you had your concept. And what inventors would do is, you know, the post, the post office would stamp it when you'd have a date. And then to just try and make sure that there's evidence that the envelope hasn't been tampered with, they would sign their name right on the edge of the flat so that if someone opened the envelope, and then took the contents out and replaced it later on and resealed it, you would have like experts in court testifying that this envelope has been opened before all of that the entire industry, at least as far as proving inventorship is gone, because now it doesn't matter how much evidence you have of inventing first. It's all about filing the application as soon as possible. So,

14:21

you know, talking about that I get this question with clients a lot. And I just want to put it out there for anybody who's listening that may have that question. So let's say I filed a provisional patent. Should I still have people that I speak to, like if I want to pitch my idea at a tech accelerator? Should they sign a nondisclosure?

14:38

Yes. So it's always it's always helpful. It's extra protection. It's not necessary. So the reason for doing that is if you file a patent, and you get them to sign a nondisclosure agreement, if your patent ultimately doesn't get granted, then you have you can fall back on a As a nondisclosure agreement, what I, I'm always careful when providing that advice is you don't the other way around, is not really that safe. So if you rely on just a nondisclosure agreement, you're taking a risk. Because a nondisclosure agreement is basically it's a contract and contracts are enforceable between two parties. And that's all a nondisclosure agreement if a party agrees not to disclose the idea, and they partner and both of them signed, but party a gives the idea to their second cousin, or even further removed, like just with just a friend, or an associated of an affiliated company, then the entire burden is on the inventor to prove that the leak happened through the person that signed the contract. And if they do Sue, the person who's actually brought the product to market, that person could legitimately testify in court that a they don't know you, they've never spoken to you never written to, you have no idea who you are. And as far as Oh, you can sue them for breach of contract. But hey, I have no contract with you. So don't rely on a nondisclosure. But if you have the patent pending, there's no harm to additionally having a non disclosure filed.

16:20

So it sounds like it's good to file a provisional first and get that filing date, it looks

16:25

like there might be a comment or question from the livestream.

16:31

Can you go over just what is kind of the process of prototyping, if from the initial when they when they speak to once they file their provisional patent application, kind of the process so that everyone can kind of get a more understanding? So a quick summary of

16:50

quick sorry, absolutely. So if, when a client comes to us, and they have a brand new idea, they filed a provisional patent, they're ready to jump into development, it really depends on the type of product you have. So we just finished our product for a physical therapy product, and it's a lot of cutting so and it has some plastic parts. And then we have other products like medical devices that are mostly like metal and plastic. So it depends on the material, and depends on the product and the complexity. So we also do products where we have to design, you know, electronic PCB, printed circuit boards and, and things like that. But initially, we'll start off with a really basic crude prototype, after we do some research and some ideation. So for us, we won't just start building a prototype right away. First, we'll want to ideate and figure out what is the aesthetic is going to be on the product, what is it going to look like? How are we going to make it function the way it's supposed to function. Because at the end of the day, you want a prototype that works, that will be frustrating if you're developing something, and you know, sometimes the first prototype doesn't work. And that's part of the process too. But so we get the aesthetics down, and we'll come up with a few different design concepts. And we'll work with our clients to hone in what that final concept is going to look like. And then we'll we'll usually, if it's a physical item, like plastics or metal, we'll take that concept and build a 3d CAD model. And that will give us all of our dimensions how we're actually going to build the prototype, and build out a plan of all the parts. And then we'll have a discussion with you and say, Hey, are we going to, you know, 3d print the initial parts, you know, so here's a 3d printed prototype of a bottle washer, and this call for flexible material, because these arms will expand in a glass and be able to clean all the inner surfaces without, you know, a lot of effort and as a suction cup at the bottom. So for a simple prototype like this, we use a 3d printer with a TPU material. And we took a silicone suction cup from another product, we put it together, but it's a great way to, you know, prove the concept. And then after this prototype, we're like, we understood that we needed to make it a little bit bigger, that the bristles need to be a little bit wider. And the cost is not that expensive. So we may go through, you know, three or four of these iterations before we get to a final design to go to production. Here's another prototype of a yoga product. And it started off with some sketches. And I wish I had the first prototype with me it was a really crude cut out, you know, prototype with EBA foam using an exacto knife, but it proved the point we got some good dimensions. This was the secondary prototype that we use a heat press. So most entrepreneurs wouldn't have access to the different equipment that we do to be able to prototype certain items. And then this was the final product. The yo easy I don't know if you can see yet, but this EBA models, you know, nearly perfect, it has the embossing of the logo, also the back here, and it has the patent number. And John actually did the patent on this product. So I brought this one today. And so to kind of go back and answer your question, it really depends on the product, and what phase in development they are. But usually the first prototype will be a little bit crude, because we're just testing sizes, testing materials. And then you can go a little bit further. And I have this prototype here. This one, we took the PCB board out printed circuit board, but this is a centrifuge that actually spins blood. And it's a, it's completely working prototype, all 3d printed, including the casing. And this is a great way for us to test the unit before going into production. So the motor and the steel plate was all seen seed, we're using the exact feet that the production unit would use. And then here's the production. So after we have a, you know, high quality functional prototype, we can then go to production, and know that all the parts are gonna fit together, and it's going to operate as intended. So I have one more example if you guys can see it. So this is a sanitizing bracelet that you were on your wrist. So this would have been great, you know, pre COVID, you can sanitize your hand in the hospital and things like that. But initially, after we did the 3d CAD model, we did a really rough 3d print, just to confirm the size and aesthetics. And this is really inexpensive, I mean, under $50. So you can see what it's going to look like. From there, we created some soft molds. And we created this prototype, that was the first functional prototype that you could actually wear on your wrist. And after some modifications, I think we did six prototypes total, before the client went to production, and then this is the production model. So it's very similar to the final prototypes, but we went through a few iterations, and that that's more or less the process. The cotton so if you have a cut and sew item, I just want to touch on that. If you have a cut and sew item, it's much easier to get to final production. So for cutting, so items, we usually will go through the design process, create some guidelines and technical drawings for you. And then order samples directly from the factory. So your samples will be closer to your end product a little bit faster. I hope that answers. Thanks for listening, guys. That was a spiel.

22:51

And there's so much I think Nike that you covered that that shows the importance of several steps along the way. You mentioned patent number, I think on on one of these, because it's right here on the back. So yeah, so anytime you go into for the inventors, if you go into a store and look at physical products if they're patented. The reason the patent numbers put on is because it eliminates the defense of innocent infringement. And it did an infringer cannot clean or if they claim to Hey, I didn't know that this product was was patented. Just so you know, like not knowing that it's not patented, doesn't prevent damages. And in court, what it does prevent is punitive damages. So additional damages to the court, in the legal sense treble damages, like triple damages, to really punish the infringer. But if you, if you if the plaintiff or the inventor has not put a patent number, then the defendant can avoid those additional damages by saying they're in a Center for Injury, just there's still the patent holder is still entitled to payment, but not those higher punitive damages. So that's why patent numbers are put on. But I want to just discuss briefly. And then when if you work with a prototype manufacturer, that's that's familiar with the patenting process. There's some products where the packaging is really the best place for the patent numbers instead of the product because it's more likely to be seen. I'm trying to think of examples, but I'm like, Plato might be an example. Plato's training for this children's toy, you're not going to there's no way to put the patent number on the dough itself. So you put it on the packaging, you put it on the box, a lot of times now. And we can talk about that also, prototyping has changed from physical products to software and applications. And that's a big part of it. So how do you there's no physical stamping of patent pending on software but you certainly can have in the footer of the website. indication that it's that it's patented. And you don't have to wait until I oftentimes will see inventors come in that had their prototype made somewhere. Not not a prototype, I will say doesn't indicate that there's the patent pending. And I'll ask if there's a patent pending. And the inventor say, yes, there is, well, it really needs to be shown on the prototype, especially if you're going to show the prototype to others. Patent Pending accomplishes the same thing that the patent number does, it puts anybody that sees it on notice that, that you have a patent on file. And that eliminates that incentive for them to rush and try to protect first, because if they see that you've already beaten them to that, to that first to file scan,

25:44

that makes sense. And talk about packaging, you know, I think packaging can also really be protected. So a lot of larger brands and entrepreneurs, I think, overlooked this a little bit. And I always push our clients, if you have really innovative packaging, you should find a patent on it. Because, you know, Home Depot, for example, that tool industry. my prior life, I developed a lot of products for Home Depot and Lowe's and skilled workforce and things like that. And a lot of the patent infringement or the infringement were on these cool cases and packaging. So if you think of a cool package, or cool way to present your product, I would recommend also, you know, filing patents on on the packaging as well.

26:28

Yeah, like the quote, like, it's not just the state gets the sizzle, well, sometimes it's sizzle is what's selling the product. So you want to you may want to patent the steak, but patent the sizzle as well, because that yeah, otherwise a competitor may have a different product, but very similar packaging to yours. And what might make it look confusing consumers as to the quality or origin of the product.

26:52

Absolutely. Frankly,

26:54

John, can you go over kind of let's say we sometimes it's I've got clients that do a utility party with us. And then later we recommend also a design patent. Can you go over why that would be important. Also, Matt, how you can also help with the design. Let's say someone that's just doing a design.

27:13

Yep. So. But I'll start with utility versus design, there's so much confusion over the two, that utility means use. And it's a patent that protects the particular way an invention works. And I think the best way to explain that is is with an example. And then I'll talk about designs in the same way to say you develop a new type of belt. And it's got it automatically adjust. So say after getting heavy to dinner, good turkey dinner after Thanksgiving, you don't have to be at the table, embarrassingly loosening your notches on your belt, you just sit there and develop chips, you know, hopefully not too loud, it just clicks, clicks, listen belt. And then later on, it automatically senses that there is extra play there and it will tighten up. That's that's a huge that's utility. And you want a utility patent on that belt, but just have this really unique belt buckle that does this. And this thing catches on, not just for the utility of it, but see this belt is three, four or $5,000. I'm just making this up. Now it has an additional benefit in that people are wearing it yet it's graded adjust. But the real reason they're wearing it is that they want to be seen wearing the three, four or $5,000 belt people would recognize that. Now if you haven't, If all you've protected, is that automatic use that feature of of tightening and loosening a competitor and you haven't protected the way the belt looks, a competitor could sell a dummy belt that just does nothing doesn't work. But it looks exactly like your $4,000 belt and they could sell it for 20 bucks. And believe it or not, it's just maybe it's a sign of the times people will be purchasing that $20 belt because it looks like it performs and that's they're buying it not for the purpose that buying it for the book. So as an inventor, you always have to be cognizant of that, like why are people buying your product? Is it really the the the function? Or is it that the look that they're trying to that they really like if it's if it's both? And that goes back to that question we had in the comics that Frank brought in is that's where in times like that we would recommend both. So with that hypothetical example, you want to get the utility patent because you want that unique feature protected, but you also want a design patent so that competitors don't sell, competing design. And this This was a hypothetical but this ended up being is a real product. And like I said, I'm older so I like back when cell phones were first developed is extreme. really expensive to have a telephone. And a lot of times it would call it a car phone because you have to have your car customized those big blocks, right? Like most of the Motorola original phones, and you could tell who had a phone in their car, because there's this Mungus like antenna thing on the vehicle. And if you look, there's some old movies where they show like a limo or something and someone making a call from the limo. And it was it was really novel. And you could tell Oh, my God, this car has a phone in it because of this antenna. Well, there's a company that really capitalized on that and said, You know what, there's a market for nobody's actually going to go and ask somebody who let me see your phone. So they sold a plastic dummies stick on antenna, that seems that didn't do anything, it's just you peel off the back and like nine bucks, you stick it on top of your portfolio, a nice car. So it seems, seems Rael. No longer with this with the tenant look, I but it's somewhat nice car, if you add nine bucks to it, and the perception value for that owner is just increase the value and it just right, we're out with this plastic dummy and canopy. So that would be an example of where you want, you know, they miss the aspect of the design, in addition to the utility. So hopefully that answers that the comments that we had on that.

31:24

And as far as for us, you know, a design patent usually would recommend when the product is final, because the design sometimes changes. So we may have one design when we first get started. And then we prototype and change it again. So I would maybe you know, I would speak with John and see because I think you know a design plan. It really needs to be exactly what the product is correct. Yep.

31:49

So when we had those design into utility, a lot of times they utility cat and can be obtained and should be filed right away. Because as soon as you have the concept of how it works, and, and the ultimate product sometimes may not look anything like the drawings in the utility patent. And that's perfectly fine, because the drawings and the utility patent are just supposed to show one example of how the idea could be made and used. But it doesn't necessarily have to have to look the way the idea is used. The design patent. On the other hand, as Matthew said, you want it to be as close of a match as possible. So you delay the filing of the design patent. Now, because the US is on a first to file system, you want to get that utility and still want to get that utility patent in first. So it takes up a bit of juggling, but it's always you do need to have a patent attorney that understands the prototyping process, at least the fundamentals of it, too. And you need someone that's working on the prototypes to understand where patenting fits in because if they send you to an attorney to get a design patent on an early intervention, the ideation phase, then that would be wasted funds. And a good patent attorney would catch that ask if this is going to be a final version? And if not, then a design would be appropriate right then,

33:16

yeah, well, we've had clients come in, and they come in with this booklet and research. And it's like this beautiful laminated book, and with a design pattern, but they haven't done any development. And so it's a beautiful line on, you know, line art. But unfortunately, sometimes then, once we get to development, the product changes. And they have to, you know, refile. So I think it's important to know what you're getting yourself into in that regard.

33:48

So I have another question for you guys. Okay, so says, If I have an idea, and I want to do it, but I don't know of any information, know how to work software, what should I do? Should I first build it out? Like, how do I build it? So that's kind of the question and also, I guess, for John, is from the software side, how do we protect that? I know you talked a little bit about putting the patent number or patent on a website. But if I'm developing an app, how would that work?

34:23

Okay, so I'm talking about the patenting side real quick. And I think a lot of that's going to be from Matthew. But there's you can get a patent on four types of general statutory classifications, a machine and Article of manufacture, a composition of matter for a process. And the process is where software patents come in. Historically, processes. When you think about patenting, you would think of the process in a factory for creating a product a series of steps, say a bicycle frame, that stronger than any other alloy that's out there because during manufacture, they cycle the heat. So a manufacturer might want to protect that with a patent. And that's how most processes work. Now software fits directly within that category. And I just want to put to rest there's, there's a myth out there that software is not protectable. And you can't patent software, I think that a lot. That's, that's not true a key, we get software patents all the time, they have to be written in a way where it's your soul. It's not an abstract idea. And you're solving a tangible problem. It's kind of a special theory of ours, to protect software. So if they're done right, you absolutely can protect software with a patent. No. Part of the question was, which do you if you're not a programmer? Do you have to have the code before you can see a patent attorney and protect it? And the answer is no, because you don't really want this specific code protective. That's many times so detailed, that it's going to give you really narrow rights because of the competent programmer could create some letters, the exact same thing, using even a different language, if you use COBOL, they'll use C++ or Fortran or something else, and accomplish the same goal. So for software patents, we want the bird's eye view that 10,000 foot aerial view of what your general process is, and you don't have to have the actual code. And with that, I'll turn it over to Matthew on when it when you need the actual code. What's the next step? Sure you have that patent pending, with a provisional patent protected, then we'll how you get from that to an actual working at?

36:42

Well, so our approach for applications and also like online software, and things like that, we usually sit down with the entrepreneur, and which would save you a lot of time and money is if you actually sketch it out. And it could just be what's called wireframe. You could do it by hand, there's wireframe mind. But really think of the flow of each user that is going to use your app or application like what is your customer going to do? Is there a sign on page? What's the end result? If they click? What button? Do you need a super admin? Do you need an admin? Do you have a managers page? Do you have a back end dashboard and panel, you know, think of you know, what you want your app to do, and all of those different screens and functions, and try to lay it all out. So we usually have this big whiteboard that we put up, and then we'll just start illustrating everything. And then you start thinking a little bit more as a user. And then you figure out all the features, and sometimes you think of new features that the app could do during that process. But when you document all of that, then you have a features list, and you have everything that you need for the app to do. So you know, hey, do I need to connect to Google? Do I need to connect to check GPT? You know, what kind of API do they have, you start doing research. And then you have a good frame of mind what your app is going to do. And then we can understand how long it will take to actually develop and then break it up into phases. Usually the first phase is start, you know, developing some of the databases and starting the UX and UI. So those are you know what your app is actually going to look like, if you want any cool features like an icon to spin, things like that. So we usually do a first run of low fidelity, UX and UI. low fidelity just means they're maybe just grayscale. But with that, the actual graphics for the client to approve, and then we'll do high fidelity, which is like full color, full images. All the icons are designed, but then we have a roadmap to follow. So we have all the wireframes. So usually, after we do that brainstorming and all the UX and UI, and whenever wireframes finish, will say hey, go follow the pattern. Because everything is thought out. And from that 10,000 You know, bird's eye view, I think you have a good understanding what the app does. Because a lot of times when clients come to us with an app idea, I noticed that they really don't know, they just know one function, but they don't know everything else about the app. So it's a good way for you to do your research. And there's tons of online resources to learn how to do wireframing they don't have to be pretty they could be scribbles. But just for you to start thinking of how the app will work. I think it's really important. And if you have any questions, you can email us we're we're friendly. You can chat with us. You have any other questions? Right now.

39:41

That's good. So I think in closing, if someone wanted, you know, clearly if,

39:47

and oh, and so,

39:48

I have question, I'm not sure. I have a question about I don't know if it's relevant, because I don't do too well. In here National patents? Are they easy to get? How do you handle them? Um, you know if you could talk about that, that'd be cool. Sure. So this is a question on international patents. So how do you protect the idea outside of the United States? The beauty is that under international treaties, there's the Patent Cooperation Treaty. Once you file an application in any member country, United States, obviously is a member of the Cooperation Treaty, you kind of freeze your rights internationally, for up to 30 months, in some cases, 31 months. So you don't really want as an inventor? It's a great question. But you don't have to rush forward immediately, and start filing applications at it really costly throughout the world, you file in the United States, your initial application, it can be a provisional or nonprovisional. And then you have one full year to decide if you want to file for international rights. And at that point, you can file a what's called a PCT application or a Patent Cooperation Treaty application. And that will then secure your rights for 30 to 31 months before the end of that time period, we decide which specific countries to filing. Right, yeah. Cool. Thank you. So great question. So just before we close, like, clearly, if you're seeing this you're probably on the patent Professor websites, you know, how do we just but Matthew if someone wanted to reach prototype houses,

41:41

the they can give us a call. It's one add idea to have is our direct phone number or you can call out reach us online at prototype house.com. Or dropped into the office and have a cup of coffee with us and come chat. You can reach me directly. My telephone number is 954-612-1991. Feel free to text me I'll text you back. And thanks for listening today. If you have any questions that come to mind, feel free to reach out to us. We'll be happy to answer

42:12

thank you guys. Thanks, guys.

 

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