Hey, John, thanks for having me.
Yeah, happy, happy Friday. So for those who are who are new here, this is our Ask the patent professor, but really asked the inventor series, we have amazing inventors and they share their, their journey from the idea to prototyping to protecting their intellectual property, their patents, the entire realm. So we're very fortunate to have CJ here today. So a little bit about him. And then I'm going to do some quick announcements and then we'll go back. CJ is is is the inventor and founder of AI block, and it's a magnetic webcam cover for privacy. And he's a serial inventor experience executive. He's been featured on Shark Tank, his ideas, has just blown up beyond his wildest dreams, and we're gonna follow along in his journey. But real quick next week, we have a medical device inventor, Dr. Harold Hess is the founder of Inderal lock, vibration resistant, fascinating technologies, uses completely outside the medical industry, aircraft spacecraft, the oil and gas industry, the winner of the 2019, NASA AI tech award. And then finally, October 28, to October 30. For those some of you may already be following this, it's our virtual summit, the largest inventors Summit. This is a great opportunity. If you're because of the pandemic, it's all going to be online. So there's no travel costs to attend. There's no registration fee, it's completely free. You may not be able to attend this after the pandemic, we may not go back to the virtual model again. So mark your calendar October 28, to the 30th. The keynote is by Kevin Harrington. If you don't know Kevin, he's one of the original sharks on Shark Tank, he has over 500 products he's developed in generated revenues of over $5 billion. So let me stop sharing the screen. Now that we have those announcements off the way out of the way. And then we're back. We're back to CJ. CJ, I think you're there you are disappeared for a second. So I bought the magnetic webcam cover. The idea started in 2013. At that time, computers were just beginning to have cameras built in. Edward Snowden had his recent leak, it was all over the news security was important. Two days after sorry, two months, two days would be nice. But two months after launching his company, CJ was featured on Shark Tank. And let's without further ado, CJ, welcome to the show. Oh, you're sorry, you're very
much for having me. I had myself muted while you were talking. I really appreciate it. And yeah, I look forward to sharing the story of my block. And if there's questions, happy to answer those as well. Where would you like me to start?
Yeah. So before getting to the product, I'd like everyone to learn a little bit just about you and your background, who you are, and led us up to that point before you became an inventor.
Yeah, sure. Well, in terms of who I am today, I'm mostly a dad, I have a five year old and a almost two year old and I have been working for myself last couple years. But when I blog started, you know, I have an engineering degree. And a business degree from Wharton at UPenn. But I I was not in the products game. I was at the time working in energy efficiency of all things. So it was really focusing on software and energy. But just had this idea around around the webcam cover. And what started off is kind of a joke with friends where I'd say hey, you know, we are going to be I blocked billionaire because I'm going to create this thing that covers your webcam. And my major competitor is duct tape and post it notes. And we just kind of joke about it. That's how this thing started really, just as an idea, because the MacBooks were the first computers at the time to come with a built in webcam. And my brother, my younger brother had said to me, I'm kind of afraid people are watching me. And then as you mentioned, I was living in DC and Edward Snowden was all over the news saying that we were being watched. And so that's where the idea started. Yeah, well, yeah. So so the original idea was really actually just kind of piece of plastic. And, you know, as you mentioned, at the beginning, I had this idea. And I ordered a bunch of plastic clips from the internet to try to think of it like a chip clip was kind of my process, feeling different materials. I went on Upwork which is you know, a place where you can get a lot of different now it's called now it's called Upwork. It was called Elance at the time, and I got a design for basically almost like a money clip. And my plumber actually said To me, you should go on Shark Tank, I don't even know where Shark Tank was. And I said what size like this thing and Mark Cuban. And I said, You know what I think I met someone who worked on that show. And I sent them a note. And this is something that I'm happy to talk more about how to get on Shark Tank. My experience was a little atypical. I emailed someone who used to work on the show. And he said, This is a great idea. And I said, Well, I don't even have a product yet. And but I sent the drawings in, they asked me to make a quick video, I had it 3d printed. So 3d printing is really an amazing tool for all of us inventors, right now, just with the CAD, I was able to get it printed at the DC Public Library. And, you know, as I dropped, dropped it in there. As I sent the video in, the producers came back said we'd love this come back and film, we'd like you to come to Hollywood in six weeks. Well, the only problem was I had never sold one. I you know, at that time didn't have a patent I did quickly file for a design patent is very quickly. And a trademark is very easy to get fry block. And so if you watch my episode, kind of the big laugh line, and there's a couple of laugh lines in there, and that was really, you know, one of my takeaways from Shark Tank is it's really not a place. It's a place to get exposure. You know, it's very different than a traditional fundraising effort. And, but they said, How many of you saw I said, 50, and I said, 50,000. And I'm like, no, 50 I just started like six weeks ago. It's like when I went to and so you know, I did film and it got it got aired. And and once it aired, I sold about $80,000 worth of these plastic clips on my website, my Shopify site in my Amazon site. But I actually decided at the time not to pursue it as a as a as a job because I wasn't able to get a utility patent at the time. And so I moved out you know, I like I mentioned I have other skills I moved out here I worked at a startup called shift which sells cars online, which I'm happy to say actually listed on the NASDAQ yesterday. So it's been a it was the right decision to go and pursue that instead of the high block at the time. Well, but then I couldn't get this idea out of my head I'm sure I'll a lot of inventors feel that way. And I took a job actually with Airbnb and Airbnb was giving out webcam covers, I couldn't believe in those five years webcam covers that become a thing. And there's one product I really love called the spy shutter. And what that spy shutter was, and really, if anything, you should get Carl on here as well, he he had filed a patent for the for the spy shutter. And so the spy shutter looks something like this. And had just had one Hall. And he had been iterating on it and trying to sell it but had been unable to really make much traction. And like me, he had a day job as well. And we had stayed in touch and he. So in 2018, I bought the patent from him. So he did have a utility patent for this. And that utility pad as you can see that video, it basically it uses a magnet to stay to the to attach to the MacBook webcam, the MacBook laptop. So the the utility patent is a great patent. It's using the magnets built into the laptop to hold in total lens cap basically, it's how it's defined. And so I bought, I bought it from him, we've remained good friends. And I've tried to make a business out of it. And I've gone about that a few different ways and happy to dig into that. But that's really the history of how we went from this kind of simple idea with a plastic cover that was kind of hard to really patent for utility patent until I met Carl who had got this really great utility patent for the spy shutter.
Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's, it's fascinating. Now one thing, let me try to find out a post it knows. Yeah, yeah. So you know, like they said before post it notes what people would do just out of necessity is Don't fret is a big grab a piece of tape, and just a piece of paper. And that's what we use. Now it had disadvantages the tape would it would tear your paper sometimes if it's where you're supposed to sign it could ruin contracts. So this solves a lot of that. Now before when you came up with the idea for I block. Were there informal solutions like where did you use yourself or people paper like what were what are the other ways
you could take that post it note you have in your hand right there and put it over your webcam covered. That's number one competitor. Yeah, that's my number. And actually, if you watch the episode, that's part of the kind of stick is I have some posted notes in my pocket and I'm like, do you want this on your computer? Like it's gonna get gunk all over your $2,000 laptop like we need a solution? And I really hammed it up I mean, if you watch it, I kind of look like a lunatic. And you know, I'm basically saying we need to save America by by you know, selling this $5 piece of plastic. And so, you know, but part of it feels good because because it was you know, everyone does have their webcam. I noticed your webcam looks like it has a built in cover. You know we the industry exists. And the idea was right in Now, more than ever, with everyone working from home, it's a product that people want.
Yeah. And timing is, is everything as well. So I mean, obviously, the reason for having a separate webcam for me anyways, that clarity, but that's patents are good for 20 years. And as laptop cameras get more and more sophisticated. I can't imagine that separate clip on webcams, or, you know, they're not, they're not practical. If you're on an airplane, or, you know, somewhere else, you've got to carry this extra piece, you've got to plug it into your USB, people want to use their laptop webcams. But that's a huge disadvantage. Are you worried about? And I guess this is really thinking long term, but how have the computer manufacturers, I mean, they've got to be aware of this problem, are they
it's been fascinating, because you know, every time we're MacBook generation, so I guess two things. One is just to kind of finish the story of us building a business, we've introduced some other products that include the nanoblock, which which can which is universal, and can go on a phone or a tablet. And this is not patented, but I have actually been able to still license it and sell it to Kensington. So Kensington, the big company, now now sells both of our products globally, which is kind of a big win. So Aiko, you know, you can sell if you can see if it's got all these different languages. And so they're distributing this one, which is not patented, but then they're also distributing the magnetic one, which is patented for us. And I would just say that, you know, I get frustrated, because eventually MacBook will have a built in cover, and then this magnetic one, the value will disappear. And so I've been trying to get into the market as much as I can for the last two to three years. And every time a new MacBook comes out, I hold my breath, because the competitors like HP are starting to have this built in, built in covers. But so far Mac has not. You know, I guess two answers. One is that the new ones still don't have a built in cover. And the old ones will still be around for another, you know, three, four or five years. So I think as more and more people want covers, if you have no one doesn't have a cover, it makes sense to buy it?
Well, in sometimes, and this is one of my things that I'm fascinated by as a as a patent attorney, is when you see when companies I mean, see customers struggling with a problem. And their customers having to come up with their own solutions. Like you would think that that would be somebody at these large multinational corporations would say, Hey, guys, we need to address this, because our poor customers are addressing it. I mean, the one thing that comes to mind is in the handicap market for those walkers, for even still, you will see people with a tennis ball kind of on on to the feet of them to help it slide better. And for shock absorption and everything else. Like that's got to be like if you're a large manufacturer, you've got a team of engineers, like doesn't cross their mind if they're at an airport, and they see somebody with a walker that has bought their product, and then has to go to a sporting goods store, buy tennis balls, kind of little X on them and stick them onto the bottom of their product. Like I would think that someone at Apple would look at this and say, Listen, this is a real issue or consumers are dealing with it. What and address it.
Yeah, and it's finishing. So Apple and HP have taken two different paths. So HP now has a built in cover, they made a huge deal about it, they put out a research report that people want this. Apple was adjusted a different way Apple is said we're so good at software that that if the lights off, then it's off. That's basically what they've said. And I think that's still missing the point. Because all of us that are now on these webinars all the time, even if the lights on if I walked by, in my in my robe, or you know, my wife walks behind me or my kid jumps on my lap. I'd like to know that I can physically kind of
something. Yeah, something quick. I mean, we've all seen the YouTube videos where like, the news reporter is there and his kid walks into the room or whatever, like you don't have the luxury of time to be like even right now you see what I'm trying to play that video of yours. It's, you know, it's not like I'm not like a pilot flying an aircraft, but you've got like four or five different things. At the same time. You got to minimize something, take something else off your screen, and then turn the camera off. The easiest is something
so this is why we need to kind of speed to market on this. And that's why we frankly have done partnerships. So we decided to partner with Kensington because they have a distribution channel. Big companies, you know, companies like eBay. Pivotal Labs, which is software company Asana, which is a software company we were a lot of tech companies are buying these from us. They will also before the pandemic people were buying them and putting their logos on them. So this one's like kind of cool for us. Apple like this is a company called ripple. You know, they have these kinds of we can print them full length, as well. So, you know, the first two years, we really focus on the promotional products business. We then were able to land this this partnership with Kensington. And so we're also trying to sell directly to CTOs now.
Okay. Now, one thing I want to kind of go back to like the sharks, they were pretty tough on you for not having a patent. And I got to commend you for being just two months after your products launched to have had the gumption to send in the application get on Shark Tank, and go on there.
Yeah, no. And Hindsight is a lot better than then there wasn't the moment that's for sure.
Yeah. But you know, that's how people would say that about any inventor. I mean, it's just, it just seems when you look back on it historically, like even the Wright brothers like what would have somebody to bicycle mechanics in Dayton, Ohio. None of them had gone to college, neither one of them only one had finished high school to think they're going to create, you know, this airplane and then to get inside this experimental contraption that they created themselves and launch themselves into the air. You look back on that anything? What were they thinking? But that's, that's the nature of innovation. I mean, there, there is an element of risk, there is an element of you know, what, I think I have something new, and it does take some would call it you know, don't call it ego. Some would call it just just brazen courage to say, You know what, I'm not Apple. And I'm not IBM. I'm not Dell. But I think I figured out a need in the market. And obviously, you were you nailed it with that, that need the consumer demand for this. Because the market is flooded now with people trying to catch up and come up with solutions that are, you know, that tried to do the same thing. And I think you are right, is that there's people need to want a mechanical, physical solution. That's not dependent on software, because we all know, software can be hacked as well. Like, I don't have to worry, like, if I really want my screen off, I take this little piece of plastic right here. And nobody's going to hack that. Like, I don't care. You can't see me no one can get into my machine. But if it's software based, like how can you say that's not a vulnerability, somebody hacks your software, you don't see the light on you think your camera's off. But it's not. So the only surefire way to know that your camera's off is like, Listen, I've got this mechanical piece. That's it, you're not going to see anything you can hack. You can be the best hacker in the world. And you're out of luck.
I gotta give you on, you're hired for that. You heard for my infomercial? Patch. Oh, got it. You got it, right. Yeah, yeah. Yep. I haven't surprised. I mean, we've I've spoken to people directly at Apple. And, you know, their initial reaction has always been well, if we associate ourselves with this, then we're somehow implying that we can be hacked. And I think that increasingly, it's not about hacking. It's it's about, you know, it's a feature that's missing, that people are in the room with you. And you don't necessarily want it to be open even if the light is on. So I'm hopeful if anyone knows anyone at Apple that wants to buy the pan all day, I'll sell it, you know.
But that's, that's another thing of I mean, the, I guess brilliance is a lack of trying to think of a term but to go back as an inventor, realized that that was a vulnerability you had and then to reach out and purchase the patent like that. Yeah. And I do.
And I think that's a good point, we should definitely give Carl and his wife who created the patent credit, because they're the ones who really, you know, he was trying to figure out the magnet, he figured out the magnetic piece, he actually told me the original story was that he noticed that there were magnets and use a paperclip to see where they were. And there's two magnets on each side and you just use a simple paperclip. And then you cut a piece of paper and says, Wait, this could this could hold in place and and then he he cut a piece of metal and figured it out. So you know, we've done a lot of improvements to the product, we've added a second, we've made it thinner, we've added a second a hole for the light sensor. So there's an ambient light sensor in your computer. There was some initial concerns about scratching. So we've added Kensington together, we added some some new pieces to this to make it a better product. But Carl had that initial insight and, and you know, Carl is a very successful businessman and entrepreneur himself actually and he has I think maybe 30 or 40 patents. He's a really brilliant guy. And it's been interesting working with him because he sold it to me, I think at a fair price and really he wants to see it succeed. You know, like most vendors, he wants to see it in the market and and I invented a version of this that was not as as kind of Uh, you know, I think I even brought it to market a little earlier than him. But it was not a patentable product. So I didn't pursue it. But once I had this patentable product, it made sense to pursue it more
well. And sometimes, and this is where you know, the brilliance of an inventor, it's not always technical in the nature of like, going back to this post it note, like, you could probably go to any college campus with engineers and ask the engineers to develop glue that is sticky enough to temporarily stick to paper, but not damage the ink or paper. And I would say 90% of even entry level engineers could probably come up with something. So the brilliance of this is not the technical solution. But sometimes it's demand. It's like, hey, there's there's a need for this. Sometimes the inventors brilliant is realizing that a problem that they're facing, it's not just them, that it's something widespread. I mean,
yeah, and you get a lot of nose, I think, and I'm sure some of the people listening to this are inventors themselves. And you know, I gotten those from 1015 20 million people when they wanted Shark Tank, and people were making fun of me and but it's and even with Kensington, I actually got to know the first time I took it to them, I then was able to drum up about a quarter million dollars in sales in 2019. And so I went back to them and said, Hey, look, this is a real product, please. You know, can we take this to the next level? So in hindsight, I've been at it for seven or eight years, it looks like impatient, but every day, I'm pretty impatient trying to get more out the door.
Well, so that, as far as getting a number of nose, do you want to talk about how you got into Walmart? And was that before they came tinting deal? Or after that? Or?
Yeah, yes. Yeah. So you know, Walmart and Amazon. It's really an amazing time to be an entrepreneur in the sense that so so I'm not on Walmart shelves, but I am on their online store. And similar to Amazon, which has what they call marketplace sellers. So over 60% of stuff is sold on Amazon is not sold, Amazon is sold by people like me. Right? And
but you know what, that whole distinction of not available in stores and available online? The pandemics, like changing the entire world? Exactly. And so, for a lot of people, it really makes no difference because they're I don't think shopping is ever going to go back to the way it was. I mean, there were those, you know, the early adopters that went to services like shipped for groceries and such. But now everybody's adapted and dynamics over it's not going to change. Yeah. And
so what's so amazing about what Amazon pioneered and Walmart is now copied and others Newegg is that you can you anyone can sell on these, these platforms. Now, Walmart did have a slightly higher bar than Amazon, mostly just around paperwork that I had to find as an entrepreneur. It's not very organized constantly original incorporation documents, things like that. And Walmart did approach me to lists so I don't know if they let everyone list. But Amazon lets everyone list when I sold those first 50, I literally was printing them on a 3d printer three at a time putting them in the packing and myself sending into the Amazon warehouse. And as a buyer, it looks like Amazon selling it, you can get it Amazon Prime, right, even though it's sold on lock. And so I just think it's an amazing time to be an entrepreneur, like because access is much less expensive than ever before to do the things you need to do manufacturing, distribution and get customers in the door.
It's you know, I've called and in some of my I believe even in one of my TED talks, I've referred to it as the golden age for inventors, because it has absolutely never been easier to be an inventor when you mentioned even 3d printing, the cost of 3d printers has gone down.
Yeah. And so much as as a service. So the 3d printing, I used, you know, a service called Shapeways, that they have super high quality and you don't have to buy a printer and you just you know, they mail it to you. And you know the other because it's so easy to start now, you know, you might say okay, well that makes it scary. But the reality is that people don't have the guts to go and start stuff. So I personally love sharing my ideas and making them better. I don't kind of just hold them tight. Because no one's gonna go knock on Kevin's door 100 times like I did. You know, it's trying to get this thing through, you know, the average person so I'm happy to talk to someone who's got a day job say hey, what do you think of my products? How can you help me make it better? What would you do differently? And that's true for inventors or entrepreneurs and you get told this a stupid amount of times and you know, obviously at some point if it's really the wrong idea, you need to listen, but if you know it's the right idea, just keep chasing it.
So Oh, that's funny one of and as far as getting the nose is a big obstacle, but I speak to a lot of inventors where it seems like the simplicity of their idea. Instead of being a plus, there's this perception out there that to be an inventor, you got to have like a flux capacitor or something. Like what's the catch with?
I mean, the hardest part was actually the manufacturing of this, because getting the paint right and getting the scratch right, and getting it that doesn't bend and finding the right thickness of material. None of that's in the patent actually, right, the pat that that's true this time. And so it's kind of an interesting, you know, so yeah, I completely agree that, that you can have a very simple idea. And, and make it into a business,
you know, like this, what could be simpler than, you know, a post it note three, you know, over a billion dollars in sales, the coffee cups sleeve, that little cardboard sleeve that goes over a cup of coffee, the inventor PulseR instance, licensed for over a million dollars a year for close to 20 years. So the upside down catch up bottle, I talked about some of these ideas, because I can't tell you how many times I'm meeting with an inventor in my office. And their worry is my ideas. I almost didn't see you because my idea is not complicated enough to justify seeing a patent attorney, they think it's got to be like rocket science in order to be protectable. But if they've identified demand that many times is huge. We're almost out of time. So I want to talk about give you a chance to tell me what of all the different wins you've had, what would you consider your greatest victory? And I'll give you just a quick, quick Preface. I remember seeing an interview by Jeff Bezos from Amazon. And the same similar question asked of him. And sometimes the answer is surprising. Because you would think, you know, it would be something like, Well, when we took over Whole Foods, or when we some major, major win. And he said, I was exuberant when I was able to afford to hire my first driver to take the packages to the post office. So I didn't have to do that myself. So sometimes it's not, it's you know, but what's yours?
Yeah, no, I don't know if it's the biggest one. But I think I think that feeling that that you just mentioned that Jeff Bezos had. No. So I was I joined this company shift, which I mentioned. And we I was the first employee and about six months later, we raised $20 million from venture capitalists. And I printed up I was on the finance team, I you know, I printed up the bank statement, we were sitting around having a beer. And that wasn't my biggest win because I all of a sudden felt a lot of pressure that like, Okay, this is great, but like, like, we have all these expectations, we have these investors, for my shares to be worth anything, we have to now grow much, much bigger. And I compare that to when you know, I my little when I when I sold that first webcam cover, and I got a $20 deposit on my account. Right million and I'm just like, Man, I can go buy an ice cream right now. Like this is so
big, it just started like that's the it started from here started from nothing, and then an apple buyer so
and you know, so now every time my phone rings, when I when I make a sale, my five year old says oh, we can go buy some more ice cream now. So I still get that little rush each time we make a sale. And so that that for me. And then I you know the biggest victory Iris is my wife. She's she's an amazing person. I'm very lucky that she chose me. So you know, that's, that's, that's an easy answer. And
a huge she's been a huge support, because obviously there's ups and downs as an inventor.
Yeah. She's She lasts with me. And she, she's hard on me when when when she needs to be to say, hey, you know, is this really the right way for you to spend your time and makes me kind of check in. We had a deal. When I started, I block I could spend up to 1000 bucks on it. She said I could sell my bicycle and I had my road bike I wasn't using. So that's how we started. And she's she's been cheering me on ever since.
Well, and now one final question. And then Jenny, if you can put up the link for the virtual Summit, October 28, to the 30th for anyone that wants to join and also the inventors mastermind, where I answer your questions in our Facebook group about the invention process. But we talk about ups and downs for inventors and there's several ups that we've kind of talked about with yours. I want to talk about the biggest dip like the hardest setback which sometimes in a previous I think in inventor like a couple of weeks ago, they put their product aside and just didn't touch it for six days almost given up and it was you know until the idea didn't die kind of like what you mentioned with yours is you had when you started your startup, you put it aside, but it kept nine yet you, you know, wanting to breed say, Hey, listen, there's there's demand out there. So what was the biggest setback? One that almost had you give up? But you didn't?
Yeah, all right, you know, I would say my parents on Shark Tank, you know what, when when I applied to Shark Tank, it was a joke. And I said as fine. But in that six weeks, I had convinced myself that hey, this is a good idea. I've sold 50 That's, I think that's kind of impressive, since it was just an idea. I have a legitimate background, why wouldn't these guys support me? And, you know, I had convinced myself going in there that that why wouldn't they give me 50 grand and it was very difficult. It's not, it's not like a real pitch because you're not they don't know you, they don't know what your product is. It's kind of these like, you go back and forth. It's made for TV, right? Your NFL quarterback, they cut it down to six minutes at the end. And I've mentioned this before, but you know, so you go back to the trailer, and they give you a psychiatrist actually. So like you're in the trailer, some people have just given away their company, some people have just been told their lifelong dream is the dumbest thing they've ever heard. And she said to me, you're gonna play this over and over again in your head. And you're going to beat yourself up but but really the question you have to ask yourself is, is what are the outcome been different? If you've done something different during that 45 minutes? And then we it wasn't? No, it was a stupid little piece of plastic at the time, Mr. Wonderful, call it crap on a stick. That's what's on. And so that's really, it was a huge letdown. And I was definitely sad. And that advice has been so valuable, because you know, you can basically do the best you can if the outcome isn't the outcome, then you got to just kind of reflect and see what you could do next, instead of really just killing yourself over what could have been different than 45 minutes, because there wasn't, there wasn't much that could have been different. And sorry. I was a huge lockdown. And, you know, like I said, about a month and a half after it aired, I met the founders of shift and decided to join them and set something aside for five years. And actually, the way I met the spy shutter guy is I said to him, do you want to buy my company because I was still airing on Shark Tank and reading it getting hits twice a year. And he said actually, this is my side hustle to do you want to buy my company. And so that's how we stayed in touch. And so you know, and he's he's, he's actually his his profession is he is the head of Wi Fi for Belkin. So he's got a giant job and this guy's a brilliant guy. And so I think as an inventor also recognizing, okay, you're not going to take it to where it needs to go, but you need to let your baby go. That's what he did. And, and I appreciate that. He did that for me.
Okay, perfect. Wow. That's it. I mean, I get goosebumps even listening to that. Because when somebody like Mr. Wonderful says, your ideas crap on a stick. It's hard. I mean, you've got to be you've got to have a lot of gumption to say, You know what, I think that this thing does have wings, and I'm going to give it another shot. So hats off to you. I know you're inspiring a lot of other inventors who are in the same, you know, same or similar circumstances. Everybody's been told, No. Everyone's had their ideas knocked sometimes by friends, family, you know, even those are the strong support systems. Sometimes their support system comes back and your mom says your idea sucks. So you know, that's that's just the life of an inventor. So thank you for joining. And I'll see everybody next week. And for our next episode.
Thank you so much.